I think RTF Packages are a great way to get started. You?

psycho-patch

Well-Known Member
What was said in the first post is fine by me. The biggest problem I see is newbies always want the fancy, coolest aerobatic plane, warbird or scale plane of their choice to be their first to learn on OR some hagged out, used up, worn out setup that barely works anymore if at all and takes a lot of work/frustration just to get it in the air. Once in the air it barely flies worth a damn and constantly craps out in the air. If you get them to get past the stubborn attitude that comes along with the disappointment or anger that is associated with one extreme or the other it usually works out ok for them later on. Once the newbie realizes and accepts they have to start with an ugly trainer style plane it then comes together.
 

BRUTUS

Plank Junky
Lifetime Supporter
I feel you-

Like any education program, I think there should be a "curriculum" that dictates the same sort of stuff you are talking about- like how to build and assemble a model correctly- know what parts are called, where they are located, how they function, basic aerodynamics, along with a basic structural education to show noobs how structure actually works. IE stringers, cross braces, compression braces, flying wires, spars, shear webs, struts... Proper electronics setup, linkage geometry, hinging, covering, the list goes on. I had the benefit of full scale flight instruction combined with not only ground school, but over 300 hours of antique aircraft restoration, along with decades of model building- plastic, wood, scratch, chuck gliders, sailplanes both RC and full scale...

Does any of that happen nowadays? Only if they are self-educated, and have inquiring minds.
 
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AEAJR

Looking for Lift
I am on FG, and everybody knows it. That place is a friggin' joke. Full of idiots asking the dumbest questions, left and right. Hence, my statement about RTF junk bringing in riffraff into the hobby. When I was a kid getting into this hobby, I had no guidance at all, as out of everyone in my family, I was the only one with an interest in aviation. But before I got into rc airplanes, I was already building scale models, not just airplanes, but also cars, motorcycles, and armor. I see these RTF toys as the reason so many noobs get into this hobby, and do some of the dumbest things, especially the FPV twits that don't think about consequences for some of the stupid things that they do. Seems like the number of hits they get on YouTube is all that matters. I know the RTF crap also brings in decent people, but for the main part, I think that kits or arfs should be a requirement, in which a person who will fly it, actually has to know how to properly set up a flying model, sort of a reason for the person who will be flying the model, to actually have a respect for it, and others. Thought I'd spice the thread up, been slow around here, and FG puts me to sleep.... For God's sake, tell NTS to smarten up, stop buying from NitroPlanes.crap for Christ's sakes!!! JUNK!!!
Great spice. Love it.

After I thought about it for a while I recalled that I did not build my first car, one that I ride in, it came RTD, ready to drive. I later learned about building and fixing, but first I learned to drive.

Of course my wife could't change a flat tire but she does well behind the wheel.

When it comes to model airplanes, there are builders, there are flyers and there are those who are some of both.

Personally, I am a flyer, a pilot first. What buildling I do is just to get that barrier out of my way so I can fly or to repair what I broke.

I have 30 aircraft of one sort or another. I have built 4 kits. It was fun ... when it was over. Nice to fly what I built but I would rather have had the ARF or a PnP or a BnF. I was building it so I could fly it, not because I wanted to build.

Clearly your enjoyment of the hobby stems from a different root than mine. Glad there are so many ways to enjoy what we do.
 

BRUTUS

Plank Junky
Lifetime Supporter
I think the point is that it helps if you understand how something should be, and why.

I have seen what ignorance can cost when it comes to putting airplanes together. There is no excuse for running a 50cc airplane on a 1300 mah A123 flat pack, going through a 2' 26 guage servo extension, into the switch, then into a Spektrum 6100 park flyer receiver with 5 high torque metal geared servo's. Or gluing wing blocks in place with all the triangle stock joining the blocks to a loose bulkhead and not to the fuselage sides. Or not knowing how to glue hinges in place. Or schmearing 5 minute epoxy all over 1oz glass cloth with a paint brush as a "finish" coat. Using nylon clevises on 100cc airplanes. Or using electrical tape to hold your BEC's wires to the main power leads. Believing silicone will hold screws in place when it is a lubricant!

Just stuff like that. Drives me up the freaking wall!
 

AEAJR

Looking for Lift
I think that that is all WAY beyond a beginner and his first plane. Once they learn to fly they have plenty of time to learn that stuff.
 

BRUTUS

Plank Junky
Lifetime Supporter
Aeajr-

You are right- I guess I'm just getting old and crusty. Many of todays kids don't even know how to hold a hammer, change the oil in a car, use a drill... etc...
 

Classclown

Well-Known Member
Point taken. :leaving:
Hey man, I was not making fun of you. Just joking about the smarten up part, you know, notthatsmart. Lol, But really, stay away from the Nitroplanes garbage. You really want to learn how to fly rc, get a good flying trainer. You have to learn how to fly a plane, judging its attitude, speed, your brain's reaction, thumbs, and how to stay collected when you get into trouble. A small aerobatic plane, from a crappy manufacturer, coupled with inferior electronics, which most probably flies like a turd, is not the way to learn. Been a while since I have thought of trainers, I'm not familiar with what is currently available. But, I am sure Sig still makes the Kadet 40, or the Kadet Senior, which is bigger. They flew great, look at something like that. Hangar 9 had the Alpha 40 and the Alpha 60. Stay away from the tiny aerobatic planes for now. You mentioned a Pitts S1 on your thread, a Pitts S1 can bite you quick, even as an experienced pilot. Don't start with a no name kit. There is a reason why they are not popular.
 

notthatsmart

Junior Member
Hey man, I was not making fun of you. Just joking about the smarten up part, you know, notthatsmart. Lol, But really, stay away from the Nitroplanes garbage. You really want to learn how to fly rc, get a good flying trainer. You have to learn how to fly a plane, judging its attitude, speed, your brain's reaction, thumbs, and how to stay collected when you get into trouble. A small aerobatic plane, from a crappy manufacturer, coupled with inferior electronics, which most probably flies like a turd, is not the way to learn. Been a while since I have thought of trainers, I'm not familiar with what is currently available. But, I am sure Sig still makes the Kadet 40, or the Kadet Senior, which is bigger. They flew great, look at something like that. Hangar 9 had the Alpha 40 and the Alpha 60. Stay away from the tiny aerobatic planes for now. You mentioned a Pitts S1 on your thread, a Pitts S1 can bite you quick, even as an experienced pilot. Don't start with a no name kit. There is a reason why they are not popular.
Thanks Classclown. I'm slowly learning; while I fully expect my MXS crash was due to the pilot and not the plane, I had always assumed that if it was being sold, then it worked and any mistakes were operator error.

I'm probably gonna buy the Sensei on Ebay.....

Yes, the Pitts is waaaayyy down the road right now. It bites FS pilots, so I can only imagine the model would do the same. :)
 

notthatsmart

Junior Member
What was said in the first post is fine by me. The biggest problem I see is newbies always want the fancy, coolest aerobatic plane, warbird or scale plane of their choice to be their first to learn on OR some hagged out, used up, worn out setup that barely works anymore if at all and takes a lot of work/frustration just to get it in the air. Once in the air it barely flies worth a damn and constantly craps out in the air. If you get them to get past the stubborn attitude that comes along with the disappointment or anger that is associated with one extreme or the other it usually works out ok for them later on. Once the newbie realizes and accepts they have to start with an ugly trainer style plane it then comes together.
As someone who's been through that exact same thought process, I totally agree.

"You mean I have to fly that?? When can I get the Mustang?"
 

JohnBer

Well-Known Member
lol my first plane was the gp p-51 kit with a .61 fx on the snout. they didnt wanna train me on it !
 
He had us- but that didn't save his plane!

I think RTF packages are excellent. It's an easy, low-cost way for a beginner to get their feet wet. The Sensei trainer is a fantastic learning platform with good performance. The Park Zone Super Cub has taught thousands how to fly. Any decent LHS can help to get them set-up and flight-worthy. Plus, there are many other SUPER cheap alternatives out there like Dynam that can satisfy any ones foam addiction on the cheap!

You are absolutly right Brutus, Theres been many many people who have started out on RTF's. am also start from RTF packages, It's ready to fly so you don't need anything else in order to get one up in the air.they are pretty easy to learn to fly on.
 

flyNpony

Member
I'm a newbie up in here, but have met a bunch of ya'll at a few events.

My first plane was a little low wing plane that had a cox engine on it that I bought from a hobby shop. I bought me a radio , got the motor running, went to the hay field and threw it in the air, and actually learned how to fly it with the ailerons backwards, HaHa, I didn't have a clue and no one to help and no internet way back then. But I eventually figured it all out by trial and a lot of errors.
I was hooked from then on.
Been through a lot of balsa kits, arfs and one RTF. Traded for junk that flew like junk, etc.....
I don't have a problem with any of the RTF/ arfs, or where you bought it. Hell they'll all Fly to the scene of the crime.
I say the safety guy that see's the new guy coming with a RTF should make the new guy go over every inch of the plane and CG's etc. and if the safety guy ain't there, the Vet pilot should do it. I'm sure theres some safety guys out there somewhere, Haha, and I"m sure theres plenty of experienced pilots that like to take a newbie under their wing. But I've been to a couple fields that safety wasn't even in the vocab. and a newbie with a rtf from the crappy store sure wasn't gonna get no love,,,
I guess my main point is SAFETY.
The other point is How many of you have bought a RTF/ARF cause it was a easy way to slide one past the other half ? They see a pile of Foam and say how much was that , Oh just a couple of bucks baby and they believe you.
Now somebody tell me how to slide a 108" by her ! Cause I'm moving up. Cause Chum said I could.... :thumbsup:
 

Classclown

Well-Known Member
Haha! Welcome to TFC! Hey man, it can be done. A buddy of mine snuck a 42% 3W Cap 232 through the house, into the basement, while his wife was engrossed with her favorite tv show on the tube. Good luck!
 

AEAJR

Looking for Lift
flyNpony ,

Excellent post. Safety first! Always.

And yes, even an RTF has to be gone over, checked and trimmed.
 

flyNpony

Member
crap get'n it through the house ain't my problem. Its all the planes thats piled up on top of the ski boat , and they just told me this week they're ready to hit the lake and I'm like oh man theres a ski nautique under that pile. I can hang the little one's up, how do you hide a 108" when I get it and if I get it ?
Man, thats what I'm talk'n about, I see these guys with a trailer full of fancy wings and i'm jealous cause they're either divorced or have a wife thats cool about it.... Then theres guys like me, that buying it ain't the problem, its get'n the balls to sneak it in the house thats the biggy. How much was that ?
uhhhh,,,, you could have bought me some new tires, shoes, vacation, dildo, etc............ Then you start drinking again and wind up at the crappy store buying crappitty ass RTF's that you can hide in your glove box...... I'm going for the big fatty bitch though,,, Cause Chum said I could..... :biggrin:
 
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