FPV Survey on AMA

Mithrandir

Circus Staff
Lifetime Supporter
Awesome link Tony! I think FPV is awesome and I hope it isn't regulated out of existence!!!!!
 

BRUTUS

Plank Junky
Lifetime Supporter
I think it is cool, and serves a purpose. Would I do it for fun? Nah- but this company is tentatively planning on being the 2012 RM3DT videographer... http://gotaerial.com/

Check out his home page- nice video in there...
 

MadMonkey

That's MISTER idiot to you!
Done!

Can't wait to jump into FPV again when I get home. Even though I'm doing it almost every day here... LOL
 

BENCHASON

3D Farm Hand
I want to do some 3D Farm cow pylon racing. Like this
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDBBaxpkUbo[/ame]
 

GravyGoodness

Huck-O-What?
Not trying to be a FOG here, but it makes me kind of nervous. If everybody obeys the guidelines set forth, there shouldn't be any issues. However, as far as John Q. public is concerned, the idea of someone remotely flying an airplane into something could be a concern. More so than a line-of-sight pilot.

Bearing this in mind, I have flown FPV several times on an Easystar and it's a real blast.
 

BENCHASON

3D Farm Hand
Not trying to be a FOG here, but it makes me kind of nervous. If everybody obeys the guidelines set forth, there shouldn't be any issues. However, as far as John Q. public is concerned, the idea of someone remotely flying an airplane into something could be a concern. More so than a line-of-sight pilot.

Bearing this in mind, I have flown FPV several times on an Easystar and it's a real blast.
True but than again I could make a RC FPV full size truck with a bed load of fertilizer and diesel.
 

NUDGE

Well-Known Member
Lucky guys are stuck with only a survey..

In Singapore...

Please note that the AFS has received an advisory from the IDA on a complaint from the CAAS regarding FPV interference on their radar systems on the 20 and 30 August 2011. (See extract below)

"IDA has received a Radio Frequency Interference complaint from the CAAS that its radar operating on frequency 1090 MHz was suspected to be interfered by the First Pilot View “FPV” operating on frequency 1080 MHz (bandwidth about 27 MHz) again on 20 and 30 August 2011 respectively. In view of the air navigational safety, we would appreciate it if you could help to remind your club members to refrain from flying the FPV operating on frequency 1080 MHz."

It seems that after all the discussions and debates a few months ago, the FPV flyers have decided to resurface despite the dangers to Air traffic in Changi.

We would like to strongely urges all flyers (AFS members or not) to refrain from any FPV activities on the illegal bandwidth.

In order to protect the legitimate flyers (in whatever flying fields that are left), we have no choice but to start an open reporting system so that such irresponsive behavior are not condone.

Please be warned that any details and information gathered will be given to the IDA for enforcement.
 

CrashKing

Well-Known Member
We have had a problem at our club with FPV pilots exceeding the altitude limit (major airport not too far away so our ceiling is only 400ft). With the right equipment it may be possible for them to get an altitude indicator in the HUD but that adds cost and complexity.

Probably be good if they had some HUD indicator of link quality as well so they would know when they are getting close to the range of the RC radio.

Otherwise it is very cool. One FPV pilot at our field also has an external screen so we can all see what he is seeing.

/
 

TManiaci

Engineer
Lifetime Supporter
I started this thread assuming that most people would be against FPV in the hobby. I have kept quiet, waiting to see what came up. I am rather shocked.

FPV is destructive to our freedom of Radio Control Flight. I assumed that most of you guys got that pretty clear with the incidents in New Your City and others.

Our government, and the long list of agencies that control our world like DHS, FAA, FBI, CIA and too many others to list, are very timid and usually swat a fly with a B52 bomber. I think most would agree with that, right?

Now, what is FPV in the eyes of a paranoid government agency? It's clearly a perceived threat, and a means to deliver a payload of God-knows-what in a fairly effective way.

So, if you value this hobby, and the freedom you have to fly RC aircraft without restrictions, you should be fighting to shut down or control the FPV crowd. This can't be good for the simple pleasures we enjoy.

What can we do?

Well, we can't stop the technology. But, we can stand on the platform of safety and place as many practical restrictions on range, having a line-of-sight observation requirement, limiting fuel capacity or radio range, and many other minor inconveniences that most real sporting FPV pilots would not find restrictive.

This freight train has already left the station. Now, it's our responsibility to keep it from killing the entire hobby... think about it. Gravy got it...
 
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BryceSteenburg

"Where would we be withou
Sad to say that most I have even mentioned this topic to don't even think it is worth talking about it. They're not interested in it so they really don't care. As far as they are concerned the people being the way they are with "cool" ( FPV ) is too hard to argue with. The ones that want to do FPV don't care to admit they are playing into the paranoid governments hand and just think FPV is the coolest thing to do. Most look at it as it doesn't affect them and choose not to even think about it. Now if someone was to bring it out to the field and show them how cool it was, some others would join in and get FPV just because they have to be cool too! Now all the people that don't participate in the hobby but think it is a cool hobby, really think FPV is the coolest! Basically people are full of sh!t on both sides and are going to do what they want and they don't care who says what. Most.......... apathy.

Read this one between the lines.

Personally, it is a bad move for the hobby but going to happen anyways to some degree. The consequences has yet to be realized.
 

CrashKing

Well-Known Member
I started this thread assuming that most people would be against FPV in the hobby. I have kept quiet, waiting to see what came up. I am rather shocked.

FPV is destructive to our freedom of Radio Control Flight. I assumed that most of you guys got that pretty clear with the incidents in New Your City and others.

Our government, and the long list of agencies that control our world like DHS, FAA, FBI, CIA and too many others to list, are very timid and usually swat a fly with a B52 bomber. I think most would agree with that, right?

Now, what is FPV in the eyes of a paranoid government agency? It's clearly a perceived threat, and a means to deliver a payload of God-knows-what in a fairly effective way.

So, if you value this hobby, and the freedom you have to fly RC aircraft without restrictions, you should be fighting to shut down or control the FPV crowd. This can't be good for the simple pleasures we enjoy.

What can we do?

Well, we can't stop the technology. But, we can stand on the platform of safety and place as many practical restrictions on range, having a line-of-sight observation requirement, limiting fuel capacity or radio range, and many other minor inconveniences that most real sporting FPV pilots would not find restrictive.

This freight train has already left the station. Now, it's our responsibility to keep it from killing the entire hobby... think about it. Gravy got it...
IMO, the greater dangers to our hobby are these:

1. The readily available equipment to make totally autonomous RC planes with GPS, and autopilot guidance electronics. Total cost - well under $1,000 and weight no more than a pound. Just start here:

http://diydrones.com/

Some of this stuff is actually decent quality and accuracy, particularly the GPS (speed over ground accurate to a few cm/s and course accurate to a tenth of a degree or so) and MEMS based IMU gizmos (pitch and roll uncertainty of less than 0.1 degrees).

2. 40%, 50%, and even 60% scale planes with significant payload capability.

Combine those together and you have a very capable delivery system that also has plenty of stand-off range - how far can a 50% cub fly, even after you add 10-20 lbs or more of payload? If you make it electric, there isn't even much of a heat signature. No radio that could be jammed either.

There are folks outside of our hobby who see this as the largest threat created by our hobby. Kinda worries me too ever since I saw one fly - built by college kids - and not whiz kids either. fortunately the professional paranoids know there are hundreds of potential delivery systems and so spend more time attempting to keep track of bad things that could be delivered.

/
 
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yakken

Well-Known Member
I have worried about this for years. A foreigner was asking the president of our club all about it one day. I told the pres. That I wouldn't tell him sh!t. He wanted to be able to go a lot farther and wanted to know how much payload a giant scale would haul. He had been practicing with a foamie already.
 

BRUTUS

Plank Junky
Lifetime Supporter
Pandora's box is open now. Nothing we can do will put the lid back on. People have eaten the forbidden fruit, and decided they like it. I'm not into it personally, but the AMA and the FAA didn't seem to make to big a fuss about it when they were negotiating through the last bill. There are tons of regs about doing it professionally, or as a UAV, but for hobbyists running around with their iphones... I dunno. They have had debates and stories about it on NPR, and their main concern was privacy. That, and what is admissible in court.

I was freaked out before they FAA/ AMA started the new round of regulations, but it sounded like a non-issue to me. They didn't even really mention it except to re-iterate the rules already in place- need a spotter, must be line of sight, nothing over so many oz's. etc... So long as some idiot does not try to weaponize something with a 6oz payload I think we are OK. I hope at least the NON- FPV guys are safe... I'm all about LINE OF SITE! FLY IT!

This guy: http://www.gotaerial.com/ volunteered to cover this years Throwdown- you gotta admit- that would be cool....
 

TManiaci

Engineer
Lifetime Supporter
We all should be vigilant and watch our collective areas for the people that may push the limits. The rules are vague right now, and the FAA did take a soft position in the last round of regulation, but that was by no means a cake-walk. There was plenty of lobbying by AMA officials.

The big concern comes from two directions on this matter. One is the progression to giant scale as these guys get the balls and the bucks to go big. Right now, most of these things are small and don't seem to be very ominous. But, once this moves into 40% and larger aircraft, the practicality of delivering a heavy destructive payload becomes a reality.

Right now the small FPV platforms would only be worthy of delivering ineffective small explosive charges, so the concern would be biological weaponry. I think the government feels they have that covered by watching for the materials rather than the delivery system. The progression to Giant Scale platforms is where the concern becomes a reality for delivering a 75-100 lb payload that could do considerable damage.

The second concern is the growth and availability of GPS guided systems that don't need RF controls. These systems are now available for under $200. I won't point to any specific sources, but I was just reading on a website where full autonomous flight and GPS guidance is off the shelf and ready. They have full UAV capabilities, ground station telemetry and program control, 3D GPS way-points, full mission scripting, live video down-link and a lot more. The system even boasts a trigger mechanism to make something happen at a predetermined moment or by remote.

This is pretty scary stuff right there...
 
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MadMonkey

That's MISTER idiot to you!
Giant Scale planes have killed and injured a lot more people than FPV has.

MORE restrictions and MORE regulation are never the answer. We claim to want freedom, but if we perceive someone else's hobby as potentially hurting our own, we're pretty quick to jump on it. Same reason a lot of gun owners hate people who (legally) open carry their weapons because it "might" scare someone and turn public opinion against gun owners as a whole.

Like it or not, FPV is still legal, and I'm still 100% for it as long as people use it within the limitations we already have set. If we start clamoring for more regulations and more restrictions, we lose the self-policing that we've had for so long that has kept RC relatively safe and sane for years. Do you really think they'd stop at regulating FPV when they see 50lb planes doing 3D with an amateur pilot at the controls and kids in the stands a few feet away?
 

CrashKing

Well-Known Member
Do you really think they'd stop at regulating FPV when they see 50lb planes doing 3D with an amateur pilot at the controls and kids in the stands a few feet away?
Heck, now its the kid at the controls of 50lb planes and the adults in the stands oohing and aahing!

Damn teenagers!

/
 
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