2 Stroke Fuels

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Tired Old Man, Aug 5, 2013.

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  1. Aug 5, 2013 #1

    Tired Old Man

    Tired Old Man

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    Alright, I know this will spark some controversy, but how many know we have pre-mixed 2 stroke fuel already available? How many of you might be interested in a pure 100 octane fuel mixed 50-1 with Stihl HP Ultra?

    I had an unusual meeting with a racing fuel manufacturer today who was already doing some pre-mixed stuff but they didn't realize until today they had a bit of an identity and recognition problem in the RC airplane industry. It was surprising to learn they are actually quite interested in hearing more from us if we are interested. I'm thinking if the price is close to right we can end out ethanol and octane debates in one swoop. They already have a world wide wholesale distribution network in place that even covers Down Under.

    So sound off and tell me what y'all think.
     
  2. Aug 5, 2013 #2

    Mithrandir

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    I think I have seen VP Ads in RC mags for just this very product....

    if it is $8.00 a gallon... I will pass.....

    $6.00 a gallon..... tell me more
     
  3. Aug 5, 2013 #3

    WrongWay

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    Plus HazMat $$
     
  4. Aug 5, 2013 #4

    siko_flyer

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    I can get non ethanol pump gas for the same price as ethanol,why would I pay $2.50-4.50 more per gallon for a pre-mix?
     
  5. Aug 5, 2013 #5

    thepamster

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    When I hear 2stroke racing fuels I think of motorcycles. Most of them I believe use Belray or Redline and not Stihl. Would the Stihl mix be strickly for our use? What does worldwide distribution network mean?
    I have never entered into an Ethanol or octane debate because I don't believe there is one. The only thing I have heard about pure gas is no smell. Regular gas smell does not bother me. Heck I think glow fuel smells worse.
    A company will have to try very hard to sell me a fuel mix that would be better than what I mix myself. However I will keep my mind open here and will listen.
     
  6. Aug 5, 2013 #6

    closetguy

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    just got back from Montana and you rite.high test out there was cheaper than regular by about .15 cents,the clerk at the station said it was due to the fact that high test didn't have any ethanol in it.
     
  7. Aug 5, 2013 #7

    Flatspinjim

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    I don't have a problem with Ethanol either. Been running it for years with no problem. Price is what I would have a problem with. I burn about 6 to 10 gallons a week and 8 bucks a gallon adds up.. Costs me 5 bucks a gallon to mix my own.
     
  8. Aug 5, 2013 #8

    Bunky f. knuckle

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    Holy crap, Jim!!!! 10 gallons a week!!! Id like to have your schedule!!! I cant buy time to fly, and when I do get time, I go to an event that is out of town. Then I look like a jackass, flying circles in outer space!!
     
  9. Aug 5, 2013 #9

    Flatspinjim

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    I've got a DA 200. They're a little thirsty. Lol
     
  10. Aug 5, 2013 #10

    Bunky f. knuckle

    Bunky f. knuckle

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    Cover shot, MA 10/09!!!

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    I see says Ray Charles in the dark.
     
  11. Aug 5, 2013 #11

    Jedijody

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    The price is going to be a problem for most. Especially those that go through .... Jeez Jim, 10 gallons a week?...You pour it on your Wheaties too? .... a LOT of gas. But I will say what I know from personal experience using VP fuel. You can store the C-10 for a couple+ years as long as you keep it sealed well and it will look, smell, taste, and run the same as it did the day you bought it. Engines start easier and run superior to any pump gas regardless of whether it has ethanol in it or not. For me, since I no longer go through very much fuel, it's worth the $15 a gallon to have good fuel when I need it and not have to figure out how to get rid of a couple gallons of gas every 3 or 4 months. Heck, if I factor in the fuel I would be dumping, I'd be willing to bet that the C-10 is almost the same price as pump gas for what I use it for.

    I don't know anything about their SEF products, I can't even find where they say (if they do) what oil they mix with it. But hey, if you have a Mintor, and when you hear that dreaded clickity-clankity sound coming on, maybe you could get some of their "Fix-it Fuel" with the "Mechanic in a Bottle" additive package. Save yourself about 10+ months time for a 1 hour warranty repair.
     
  12. Aug 5, 2013 #12

    Tired Old Man

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    As you know it was VP I met with today for business but after that concluded we split off into a quick hobby discussion. As Steve noted they are already marketing a mixed fuel that may or may not be specific for hobby purposes but they indicated that if the market desired it they had no problem producing their usual stable and consistent fuel products pre-mixed and packaged with Stihl HP Ultra. I'm thinking more towards the future with this and how we all might ultimately benefit from a stable fuel source. I expect I'll be hearing from them soon with more questions on the subject.

    As Jody noted the stuff is down right stable when stored correctly. Even better they have larger containers with barrel type bungs and a special vented pour spout for ease of pour. A barrel bung is about the best seal one can get on a fuel container. 1 Gallon container sizes are likely impractical but 5 gallon cans work out pretty good. I use them constantly.

    The question about the distribution network is a good one. As far as the hobby market goes I don't believe anything is in place but for bulk distribution to regional locations, all that is established. New Zealand, China, Europe, South America, East, and Middle East all have VP distribution centers so branching out from that point gets pretty easy. The hard part would have been international shipping.

    It would be pricey compared to pump gas but if you were using the stuff once you tuned your engine you'd be done with that for a VERY long time. Their fuel formulas never, ever differ. The batch you got today was the same as the stuff you got a year ago and the same as you'll get next year. That's why they are probably the world's largest supplier of racing fuels.

    In any event, it's just a thought, one that some may like and others not. Definitely has some benefits as well as the detractors like cost and perhaps hazmat. Hazmat costs could get spread out pretty thin if a bunch of the stuff was to arrive regionally in one delivery instead of being split up into a bunch of small quantity shipments. Down the line I see the U.S. going to 20% ethanol fuels and I don't think our little engines are going to like that. 10% works out OK because we have the tuning range to compensate for it but I'm not too sure about the 20% side of things. If and when that happens we'll need to have an avenue to travel if we want to stay in the air. Av Gas is leaded, runs $5.00+ a gallon, you have to go a ways to get it, meaning more in dollar costs, and still have to mix the stuff and store it in something that will let it maintain the volatiles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  13. Aug 5, 2013 #13

    WESAYSORACING

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    Straight off their website so the way I see it no hazmat

    Can I ship VP Small Engine Fuels to my customers?
    Yes. Cases of VP Small Engine Fuels quarts are classified as Consumer ORM-D and may be shipped with no HAZMAT charges. VP-SEF in 5-gallon pails and larger containers is classified as UN3295, Flammable Liquid, Class 3.
     
  14. Aug 5, 2013 #14

    WESAYSORACING

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    Are you talking about the small engine fuel (SEF) or the PowerMix ? the PowerMix is available 25:1 , 40:1 and 50:1
     
  15. Aug 6, 2013 #15

    Tired Old Man

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    Not sure. We were more in discussion of the oil selection. Quarts can't possibly be cost effective. The extra packaging just has to offset hazmat fees. If not for the probability of introducing foreign material into the fuel it could be better to obtain 54 gallon drums and break that down to fives or ones for local distribution. As mentioned though, the probability of contaminating the fuel is high when an average user gets involved. Loose caps on a bulk container and failure to assure squeaky clean transfer equipment make bad ju-ju. Seen that happen a few times.
     
  16. Aug 6, 2013 #16

    closetguy

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    around here ethanol seems to be fading out.you don't see any higher than 10% add to fuel.use to see a lot of the flex fuel pumps but all has switch them over to high test.just not a big demand for it, the clerks at the station say.
     
  17. Aug 6, 2013 #17

    gkamysz

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    VP was talking about the RC gas premix October of 2011. I have a flier somewhere. At the time they were saying it was going to be Motul oil.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDoUAGfYTvg&feature=youtu.be&t=26s

    VP already sells small engine fuel and a quart locally is 8USD. A gallon 16USD. I think I had priced 5 gallons this summer but I don't remember. Even Horizon sells the stuff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  18. Aug 6, 2013 #18

    Tired Old Man

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    Looks like I was sitting out in left field somewhere and didn't know they were already pushing it that hard.
     
  19. Aug 6, 2013 #19

    gkamysz

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    What surprises me is that they still haven't released it. Did they say it's available?
     
  20. Aug 6, 2013 #20

    Jedijody

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    $$$$$$$$$$$$, The hobby market doesn't like to part with much of it. Full scale racing of almost any kind will empty their wallets into the airscoop without blinking an eye.
     
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